We don't give Belief enough credit. There is nothing more potent in our lives, for good or for evil. Belief manipulates our emotions. It dictates our actions. It prompts our will. Children, spouses, friends, culture, politicians, the media, and all kinds of spiritual forces battle to influence our belief systems, but that is one thing that they can't take by force. It is yours to surrender. 
But what about God? Does he have the ability to manipulate belief? If so, when and why? Go to http://www.biblegateway.com/ and do a word search for Believe. If you read through the New Testament references, you'll find that Jesus teaches a lot about the consequences of believing and not believing. In John 6, when the people asked him, "What shall we do, that we may do the works of God?" Jesus told them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in the one he has sent." Jesus did miracles, spoke of things before they happened, and prayed aloud specifically so that people would believe his message. He complained about people that refused to believe despite the evidence. Why not just make them believe? Why not manipulate their hearts? Well, that has happened. Romans 9 gives a few examples. Apparently, at times, it is necessary for God to manipulate hearts to accomplish his work. It seems reasonable to think that God would prefer not to manipulate the free belief systems of man, just like a parent would prefer a child to obey and participate freely in a family. But sometimes, for whatever reason, a kid needs to be taken by the arm and forced. Apparently, God is the only being with the ability and authority to do that. Most Calvinists believe that every conversion is a result of soul manipulation. God calls, men must respond. Most Arminians believe that God calls, and they can decide whether or not to pick up the phone based on the evidence provided and whether or not they had enough sleep the night before. Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle.
The Power of Belief
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Three words jump out at me: "...despite the evidence." How much of modern Christianity is being asked to believe with no evidence at all? "Believe that Jesus has healed you!" Yeah, but I'm still sick. "Just believe that its already done!" We've bought the idea that belief creates reality, but God only asks us to believe in reality.
As for God manipulating the "free belief systems of man," how can we say? If God has perfect foresight, or even perfect insight into a heart, He knows that a Judas is consumed by greed, or a Saul is rebellious. God declares these "character flaws" and their inevitable outcome ahead of time. From our limited perspective, we are unable to distinguish between manipulation and foresight.
Hang on. Some angry Calvinists with torches and pitchforks are banging on my door.
I want to add one interesting note. When God hardened hearts in scripture, according to Romans 9, it was in two major instances: The inaguration of Israel (with Pharoah) and the inaguration of the Church (with the Jews). I would consider those two events fairly crucial.
To say that God hardened my heart last week when I was deciding whether or not to do my devotions is a little presumtious.
Hi Gardiner. Thanks for sharing. It got me thinking. As I was reading your comment, this question sprang to mind: So are Judas and Saul more flawed--ie sinful--than us, who are saved? Are there degrees of sinfulness (ie, hearts not consumed with greed)? Maybe the issue is not one of sinfulness at all as much as a person's hardness of heart.
"For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, 'FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH. 'So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires." Rom 9:17-18
God purposefully intervened to accomplish something in making Pharoah become hardened. He also made Israel deaf and dumb to His truths: "[Jesus] told them, 'The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, "they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'" Mark 4:11-12
"The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil." Prov 16:4
Well, then there's when God says He has every right to do what He wants and we are not authorized to argue. He causes death and life, blindness, sickness and health (Book of Job).
Oh, and, it says that-
Satan personally took on Judas for his crafty little scheme.
God did the hardening with Pharoah.
Jesus was refusing to help some people when they were actually asking for it.
Wait, didn't I hear somewhere that Jesus and Satan are brothers? That would make sense. Oh, hold on, there are some guys on bicycles tap tap tapping on MY door...
So wait! God can do whatever he wants??????
But I PRAYED!
Mrs. Frank, I have a question. I thought that in the case of Job there was a disagreement going on between Satan and God regarding why Job was a strong man of God. Satan's point was because Job had everything he wanted. Satan then began to attack Job according to God's permission. God doesn't "cause" death, sickness, blindness but instead allows it to happen because of original sin. Adam and Eve were only condemed to die after disobeying God; a punishment handed down by the Father.
I don't know if that is a question or a statement. Here is another question though...Where do you find that "Satan personally took on Judas for his crafty little scheme"? I am very interested in that.
Well, John, if you only had enough faith...
But that opens a whole 'nother can of worms, doesn't it? I suppose we'll be getting to that, Frank?
Hi Carrie,
It's pretty crazy how God seems like He's had enough of Job and all his "friends" toward the end of the book. If you want to read all the details, God starts talking in Chapter 38.
He starts out with (Vs. 1) "Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? Now, gird up your loins like a man, and I will ask you and you instruct Me! Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding," He goes into detail, asking rhetorical questions, proving His authority over creation, how He alone does His purposes and no creature can get in the way if He chooses, Job ends with, (ch 42:2)"I know that Thou canst do all things, adn that no purpose of Thine can be thwarted."
BUT! I guess I was incorrect, what I was talking about was in Deuteronmy, chapters 31-32. Moses was about to "die", and turn leadership over Joshua. God told Moses to write a song to teach the sons of Isreal. He seems to have been really avid about them remembering what He had taught them about Himself (through Moses). Chapter 32:39 "See now that I, I am He, and there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded, and it is I who heal; and there is no one who can deliver from My hand." Interesting.
With sickness, He caused it in the OT, like in Deuteronomy it says "The Lord will remove from you all sickness,and He will not put on you any of the harmful diseases of Egypt which you have known, but He will lay them on all who hate you." (ch 7:15)also 28:59, 28:61, 2 Chronicles 21:18 "So after all this the Lord smote him in his bowels with an incurable sickness."
Blindness and muteness, deaf, blind, etc.- "The Lord said to him, 'Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes him mute or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?'" (Exodus 4:11)
Then, the Judas comment- "And Satan entered into Judas who was called Iscariot, belonging to the number of the twelve. And he went away and discussed with the chief priests and officers how he might betray Him to them." (Luke 22:3) And, "And during supper, the devil having already put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, to betray Him," (John 13:2)
Even though it was prophecied, it looks like Satan still was the one to initiate it when it came time.
Yikes.
Hi again Mrs. Frank! :-)
I must have completely missed the Satan entering Judas thing. I will be re-reading that this evening.
I love the book of Job. It's kinda cool that we actually see someone in Job's situation being completely put in his place for questioning God. We see it in other places as well but here you can almost hear a father's voice raised as if telling your child that they have no idea what they are talking about.
I see what you are saying about Moses situation and in the scriptures you speak of. But I have another question, if I can be so bold. Can't that still be attributed to original sin? If sin had not taken place, God would have no need for sickness, death, blindness, etc. Whether or not He "lays" it on people is dependent upon their sin; especially in the old testament.
I really enjoy this conversation.
I agree that God can "infect" someone with blindness, illness, etc, but I believe that it is sin that "causes" it. Does that make sense or do you think that I am way off?
I'm wondering why God would just make an "original sin" rule, and apply it to physical creation, when it was a spiritual "death" that took place in the garden. Nobody died that day, or near that day. But they DID "die" to relationship with the Father, from then on until Christ.
Why are we still sick and deaf and dumb and blind today, when Jesus came to cancel out the curse of the garden and give us new Spiritual Life? If it was a physical thing, then, well, why aren't all Christians in perfect health?
Also, what can an unborn child do to cause sickness in the womb, or is it, "the sins of the fathers?" Who's sin exactly, causes the sickness of "innocent" people?
Job wasn't in sin, so, why did he get all that hardship? Satan wanted to do it to see if he could break him. Does SATAN'S sin lie on us and cause all the corruption? Is Satan "in sin"?
What do you think?
Oh man, this is good stuff! Thank you all for being willing to ask difficult questions and for having the desire to find answers!
This makes me H - A - P - P - Y! Phew!
I read this post this morning, and I've been dying to get the chance to comment.... but now that I finally have a few moments, I forgot what it was I originally wanted to say! ARGH! Ha.
Ah, the ever present "battle" between Calvinists & Arminians. The understanding of free will vs. election has ALWAYS been something that has eluded me. I want to believe that the wonderful gift of salvation that I have in Christ is present & available to ALL who believe. That makes my heart feel warm & fuzzy.
But this God of ours isn't interested in just making US feel good. It's like what Mrs. Frank referred to in her quote from Job... he says to us, "Go ahead, tell me how YOU think it should be done!"
Thankfully, we have the wisdom granted to us from the Holy Spirit, because otherwise there would be NO way we would even be able to grasp pieces, shards or pebbles of God's plan. Seriously, you guys. He does not package up His intentions in neat little presents wrapped up with bows, so that we can look at them and say, "Oh isn't that pretty!"
He wants us to be astounded, overwhelmed by his magnificence, in awe of Him, fearful of His greatness - He is not "ruled" by our boundaries, by our scope of understanding. We don't have to "get it" in order for it to be so.
If we were able to just understand fully all of the mysteries of our God at the moment of salvation, what would push us forward to learn more about Him?!
short-time reader, first-time poster here... friend of Weeenk...
I think she's got it. "we don't have to 'get it' for it to be so."
The problem (as I see it) is that when Jesus talks about himself, we think he's talking about us. "no man comes to the Father but by me", to me, seems to say "no man comes to the Father unless I take him there"... not "no man comes to the Father unless he jumps through my hoops and tells me the magic words the right way."
Total bunny trail, but here's a weird quasi-Christian factoid that has to do with Mrs. Frank's question as to whether or not we can blame the whole thing on Satan: the Jews had a tradition that the nations around them were governed by angelic rulers—"gods" if you will. These "powers" were angels actually appointed by God but that were corrupted by humans' insistence on worshipping them. In this scenario, you have man corrupting the angels rather than the other way around. Guess that puts the blame squarely on his shoulders.
I really enjoy this blog. A couple of things has happened to me with it. First and most important, it has rekindled the love for the bible that I have had for a long time. It was there, just smoldering.
I think that Satan "is sin" not just "in sin". His was the first fall of all of God's creation. I don't think he invented it, just that he is the one to perfect it.
I agree that "innocents" get sick, die, have bad things happen and that isn't related to anything that they have sinned for - they haven't had the opportunity to sin. Sometimes, bad things just happen.
My point is that IF sin hadn't happened, death, sickness, blindness, would never have happened. Just like the bible tells us about heaven - no more sickness - no more death.
Sometimes death, sickness, blindness is "inflicted" on us to be used as witnesses for Christ. How did He bring you thru? How can what you've been thru bring comfort to me? For example, my first daughter was born prematurely and died that day. There was nothing she did wrong and I don't believe I was being punished for anything. However, her death has helped me help others going thru the same situation and to show others that Jesus can pull us thru everything. Even the death of a child.
Just like Jesus left some people unhealed, even though He easily could have healed. The ones He chose to heal had a divine purpose for the healing.
I have a feeling that Frank is sitting back with his arms folded, just waiting to jump all over these subjects. :)
One thing about Job... In the first couple of chapters, he uses some variant of I, me, my or mine almost 50 times. The guy suffers from "I trouble." He has a Preponderance of the Perpendicular Pronoun. He thinks he's every bit as special as God allegedly does. Which might just be the reason he gets singled out. Maybe God's saying, "oh, so you think you're all that and a side of chips? Let's find out." This later gets hammered home when God responds to Job's rather rude demand for answers with a hearty "where were you when I built the joint?"
As I see it (and what do I know?), Job has two major points to hammer home; (1) There is a God and you're not him; and (2) Satan means "accuser" and accuse he will.
"Most Calvinists believe that every conversion is a result of soul manipulation."
I understand that your phrase 'soul manipulation' is like the phrase 'sin management' in that it is meant to get a point across, but this statement is simply not true. I know you are not a Calvinist, but at least try to represent their views accurately in the interest of talking "honestly about the Christian faith", in accordance with the stated purpose of this blog.
John, you propose that the truth might be somewhere between Calvinism and Arminianism, as if the two are both extremes. However, there are other possible scenarios that would put either/both Calvinism and Arminianism square in the middle of the range. (Here's one such idea (which we know is incorrect): men seek after God, find Him, then invite Him in.) My point is that it might be incorrect to choose some arbitrary middle ground; the truth might be nowhere near or between Calvinism and Arminianism.
It might also be the case that both Calvinism and Arminianism are fully true. Both ideas are supported by scripture and both sides have to selectively ignore certain parts of scripture in order to make their case. It might seem like a contradiction to say both are true, but I don't think it is; I think it is just a paradox created by our limited view of time. If God sees time in two dimensions instead of our one, then all the apparent contradictions disappear and terms like "foreknowledge" and "predestine" become irrelevant in the debate over whether knowing is the same as willing.
When I say, "soul manipulation," I mean exactly that. The I in Tulip is Irresistable Grace. Basically, according to John Calvin, when God summons a man, that man cannot resist him. Not "will not," but CANNOT. His soul is compelled to respond. In other words, when God chooses a man, he will not resist. That sounds like manipulation to me. There is no choice involved. Maybe the illusion of choice, but no true choice.
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