"If, in this city, you ask anyone for change, he will discuss with you whether God the Son is begotten or unbegotten. if you ask about the quality of bread, you will receive the answer that 'God the Father is greater. God the Son is less.' If you suggest that a bath is desirable, you will be told that 'There was nothing before God the Son was created.'" -- Bishop of Constantinople, 4th Century AD. This is what happens when you announce that to be Roman is to be Christian. You end up with a lot of confused people. The nature of Jesus is hard enough for us good, Bible-reading, modern-day Christians to understand. In 325, to stave off heresy and put an end to the debate, a Council of about 300 bishops got together at the order of Emperor Constantine in a place called Nicaea. There, they developed a Creed that included the following statement: We believe in One Lord, Jesus Christ the only son of god. God from god, light from light, true god from true god. Begotten, not made, of one being with the Father. The Holy Spirit didn't officially join the Trinity until around 500 AD with the Athanasian Creed, though the inclusion was assumed and inevitable. From that day to this, the nature of Jesus is easily explained. Here, let me try. We'll have a Question and Answer time. Q: If Jesus was truly God, why did he say things like, "Why do you call me good, only God is good?" or ""But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone." Who was he praying to all the time? Himself? A: That was Jesus in his humanity. Q: If Jesus was truly man, how could he walk on water, feed 5000 men with a little boy's lunch, or command fish to jump into fishing nets? A: Don't you know that Jesus is 100% man and 100% God? Jesus was being in God in those instances. See, it's simple. Depending on the circumstance, you can just attribute the appropriate aspect of God's nature. That clears everything right up. Does anyone else feel like our brains are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole by just calling the square peg round? If we are to believe the Bible, we must accept that Jesus walked at times as a God and at other times as a man. But how is this possible? Can he split his nature like that? Does the doctrine of the Trinity really give satisfying answers to ALL the questions that the scriptures present? Was Jesus forsaking himself on the cross. Was he begging himself to take the "cup" from him in the Garden of Gethsemane? Judging by the fact that no one responded to the poll question: "Did Jesus know if the world was round?" I can see that this issue is not as clear cut as we pretend it is. How do you personally grapple with it?
About Me
- John Barnts
- If you would like to get on a Frank Update e-mail list, send your request to johnb(at)villagechristian.org. You may also use that address for private questions or comments.
7 comments:
"...although He [Jesus] existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."
Phil 2:6-8
There's a clue, anyway.
Here is something interesting I just noticed (though I don't know that it sheds any light on the current topic)--wasn't Satan's sin that he DID try to be equal, or greater than God? And he tempts us to live as islands of self sufficiency, apart from God, ordering our OWN lives. But Jesus' example is to humble yourself under the Father's guidance and offer your whole life to Him, as a servant. (albeit a loved, treasured servant). He IS God, but humbled himself. So can we do any less?
The "Jesus was 100% man and %100 God" always just confused me more. So, He was DOUBLE or something?
It makes more sense to think that Jesus was a man, with the Spirit in Him. We are men, with the Spirit in us. Vessels. Containers...
Some great questions Frank!
Conerning Jesus' Statement, "Why do you call me good, only God is good"...I've always thought of that was a wake up call...I am good because I am God! It's much Like a teaching technique the Apostle Paul employs in First Corinthians 15:29, when he says:
29 Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?
NIV
Is Paul saying that we should espouse the doctrine of baptism for the dead? Hardly!
He's simply showing the Corinthians, that in their own culture, they believe the dead are raised...what else could possibly explain thair practice of baptism for the dead?
He's using their own practices to prove the resurrection.
Jesus appears to be doing something similiar to this when he says, "Why do you call me good, only God is good?" In other words, to his audience, Jesus seems to be saying, "You call me good? Only God IS good! Therefore, you are right, I AM GOD!
I realize this is an aside from the broader topic Frank introduced in this discusion thread, but thought I'd interject my 1 1/2 Cents worth of verbosity!
Hey, I'll give you the full two cents for that one.
That's worth at least 5 bucks! Tim, that just left such a great picture of Jesus in my mind.
I imagined him grinning to himself as he said it, knowing that just a few people would get it. But yet he wasn't being boastful or proud... he just winked.
May seem silly, but it makes Him all the more real to me when I have a moment of picturing Him like that.
It makes me WANT to be on the inside, to get the jokes, to be able to read his body language, to be able to understand the nuances of his speech... to know His heart.
(Rick Mugele)
The reason that “The Nature of Jesus” is so elusive is that we really have a tough time of understanding what it is like to be “One” with others in perfect harmony. Fortunately, we don’t have to understand it in this world. The promise is given in John 3:16 that we only need to believe. The script to this promise is woven through the Bible. Key points are presented here as:
JESUS CHRIST IS LORD, TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER. Philippians 2:11
Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him… Isaiah 42:1; Matt.12:18
…before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power… Daniel 7:13-14
This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Matt.3:17; Mark 1:11; Luke 3:22
The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him. John 3:35-36
And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the Church which is his body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all. Ephesians 1:22-23
…for it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in him… Colossians 1:19
…for there is no authority except that which God has established. Romans 13:1
Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus whom you crucified both Lord and Christ. Acts 2:36
All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Matt. 28:18
All things that the Father has are mine… John 16:15
To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations… just as I have received authority from my Father. Rev.2:26-27
I do not pray for these alone but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they may be one, as You, Father, are in Me and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me… And I have declared to them Your Name and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them and I in them. John17:20-21,26
Then the end will come when he hands the Kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he has put everything under his feet. Now when it says that everything has been put under him it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. 1Corinthians 15:24-28
Post a Comment